S2 E40: Improving science and medicine by preventing burnout in STEMM moms
with global scientific leader Dr Isabel Torres of Mothers in Science
Key Takeways
There was a lot of emphasis on initiatives to encourage more women into STEMM careers, but not enough looking at retention. And I knew motherhood was a big issue too. It's just that nobody was talking about it.
The pandemic has shown we need science. Just look at how quickly the COVID vaccine was developed. And science medicine is all about asking questions and finding solutions to problems. And if you think about it, if you have 10 very different people they will come up with 10 different ideas. And if you have 10, very similar people, you're unlikely to have a new, innovative solution. So diversity is good for science and to advance science.
There is one thing that seems to be clearly worse in academia. Women tend to have children later than in the rest of the population. So in the US, the average age for women to have children is around 26. Whereas in academia is around 30 or 31. But if you look at men are having children at the same age whether they are in academia or not. So clearly there's a problem there that at least women are delaying or restraining from having children in this sector.
It's a system that is designed for someone who doesn't have any other responsibilities. So either someone single who doesn't have to care for children or family or someone who has a partner at home, typically the wife looking after the children. So you have to be available 24/7 in academia. And this obviously isn't compatible with having a family, however fathers still make it. And this is the problem. Why are men continuing having their career progressing when they have children and women don't. And this is what is telling us that there is a structural problem and there are barriers. They are gender specific.
There is pressure for women to make certain choices. And this is the sort of myths we have to break. Why are fathers going to all conferences and mothers choose to go to just one or none? So there are obviously pressures on women to make these choices which are very internalized as well, but there are also external bias and this is something we measure in our survey.
It is very important that we have evidence of bias and discrimination directed at mothers. Because I think nobody believes that there is, even mothers. I've experienced it. You probably have as well. And we're just not aware because we don't talk about it. And we found really widespread bias and discrimination and really extreme situations where mothers lose their jobs during maternity leave. They're excluded from projects because if you are in a workplace where people will not understand that you can't go to a conference or you can't go to a meeting because you have a caregiving responsibility, this excludes all parents or caregivers. So we need to change attitudes and behaviors, but we need to change the system so that it's more human.
I think women, mothers have been on the edge of burnout for a long time. The pandemic just made that visible and worse. But if you ask women who leave academia most of them will be mothers and most of them will say they're just tired and they just can't cope because they are doing more. And this is what we have to think about why isn't this happening to fathers. Why are the men in your life coping?
So all of these barriers, even if they are small, that over time they will lead to burnout because we just have to do more and more. And then because there's a lot of isolation because there's a lot of taboo about motherhood because we know deep inside that if we say we're not coping we know this will be used against us. And because we know there's maternity bias and, just being a mother, there is a bias that people will think we are not as competent. This is one of the maternal wall issues. So we tend to hide our motherhood and we tend to try to compensate and do more and work harder.
But it never works because the problem isn't us and all of the advice I get so mad when I see so many articles, how to improve your work life balance how to improve your work life balance, how to beat imposter syndrome how to become more confident at work and all of these issues and advice and initiatives are focused on fixing women. And again, women are not the problem. Mothers are not the problem. So what we really try to raise awareness of this issue is it put the focus on the structural problems, the real barriers that mothers are encountering.
And instead of seeing these biases, the tendency is to blame yourself and you just start working more and more. And then you're going to this circle of working more and try to prove yourself more and burn out. And this is what leads women to make the choice of leaving. 'cause, you do more and more, more, and you keep on facing these barriers because people keep on seeing you as a mother.
And what we can do is to talk about these things, talk about it, talk about your own experiences. And if you do, you will see that so many women went through the same. This is how I realized of all this was when I started talking about it. And I started realizing that so many of the women have been through the same thing. And then you realize, oh, actually it isn't me. There's something wrong. And because mothers are very isolated and there's the stigma, there's a stigma that mothers are making these choices because I don't know because it's nature that we are genetically predisposed to be mothers, and this is not right. This is not correct. And fathers, men can be excellent fathers and excellent caregivers as well. And so we need to talk about these issues to raise awareness, to speak up.
You can combine everything. All fathers can do it. So there's no reason why mothers couldn't do it. And there's many mothers who can do it. We have published over a hundred journeys, moms in STEMM who could tell their stories on our website. You can find many examples of successful mothers in STEMM. It is important to be aware of these obstacles. And be prepare to fight them.
So we are leading a global movement that will hope we'll get momentum and really grow to push the leaders in STEMM to implement structural change. And we are doing a fundraising policy kit for funding agencies and we'll do one for the workplace as well, with recommendations for policies. And then we'll go one by one and try to persuade them to do the changes. And we're doing this because we think is really essential that we get together and we unite and get organized to push for change because if we work independently, it will be very difficult.
And this this culture in academia that we are supposed to work 24 7 if you speak to someone in another sector, a lot of people say, why are you working extra hours without being paid without being compensated? This is crazy in other sectors and we are working many hours for free. So this sort of culture has to change
It's even basic respect that people have the right to have a personal life, not just parents and caregivers. Everyone has the right to have a personal life and to not work on weekends. So these are things that leaders can establish in their institutions. It's really about leadership and this is why we are pushing for policy change. From the top down, we want to start with the leaders because if you have one leader, given the example, everyone in this situation will have to follow. It's not complicated. It's really about changing attitudes and how you see your employees as humans basically.
Bio
Isabel Torres is co-founder and CEO of Mothers in Science, an international non-profit organisation that aims to increase retention of women in STEMM careers by raising awareness of the barriers faced by mothers in STEMM and advocating for workplace equity and inclusion of parents and caregivers. After completing a PhD degree at the University of Cambridge, UK, and a postdoc at the MRC Laboratory of Molecular Biology, Isabel established a scientific editing and consultancy business. More recently, she founded Pretty Smart Science, a science communication platform that combines science and art to promote scientific literacy and increase the visibility of women in science. Isabel is passionate about promoting women in STEMM and advocating for gender equality, and she's a mother of 4 curious and very funny children.
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