S3 E56: Creating humanity in the workplace to prevent burnout
with authors Debbie Cohen and Kate Roeske Zummer
Key Takeways
I'm one of those type A's. I want more, I wanna do it well. And when I filter out the different transitions of my career and the reasons for them when it was about burnout, It was because a value I hold, that I might have been unconscious of at the moment was being just obliterated. And part of that was my doing, letting it happen or being unconscious of it. And so there are two times in my career. One was, I mentioned in my introduction when I had two young kids and was teaching in the classroom and I remember feeling like I'm not being my best at any of this. And the value underneath that is I wasn't being present. I wasn't feeling as if I could be present in the way that I wanted with the people who mattered to me, if that was my children and my family, or if that was the children in their families in the classroom.
The other big moment of burnout was one of my chief people officer roles and I hold the world record for transitioning the most CEOs in the shortest period of time. And I remember people there saying to me, oh God, please don't leave. Like you are the anchor don't leave. And I needed to leave.. And I wasn't really being present. For them in a way that was true and honest to myself. And I remember when I left finally saying enough that present became my word the year. Because I remember the people who were most important to me to be present with my friends and my family. I had not been because I was so preoccupied doing something that wasn't fulfilling me and because I was doing it for the wrong reasons. And those are big lessons on burnout for me.
What I love about that right is the overwork is really about resentment, which is really underpinning a value that is being stepped on. And so when you start feeling that I'm resenting something here, either inside myself or about this situation values are a really healthy place to look. We write about it in the book.
And then there's lots of ways for us to deliver the curriculum and we did it, but through the lens of everybody being exhausted. We just didn't deliver it the way that was planned. Because we could feel into everybody. We just needed to pause. We're big fans of that word. We're big fans of, hey, time out, what do you need right now? And giving people the space, the time to just pause, take a big deep breath and to really connect and talk to each other about what was really going on.
That psychological impact of wanting and hoping something to be different than it is really . In the middle of our model is you. And if something isn't right, the only thing you can change in that situation is yourself. And to be aware that something here is not working for me and think about what choices you have to alter it. And sometimes it's how you're thinking about the situation. And sometimes there's something significant systemically, but the roadblocks either in you or in the system or both. There was nothing in the system that was keeping work from flowing. It was just a psychological sense of just being completely spent and nothing left in the tank and the power of a pause to be like, yeah, like that's really hard. Let's talk about that sort of collectively raised the whole.
I know that there's so many of us, me included, who love to operate off the plan, but by golly, we don't get to control the plan because the plan involves other humans. And the sort of true essence of humanity is that interdependence that we have on one another and kind of leaning into that and figuring out what do I need to hold onto and what do I wanna let go of? How might this thing that feels important to me look in a different way? Because that's what's needed right now. I think, and that agility to shift gears, let go, hold it lightly know what's important and hold the rest lightly. I think really serves us well.
I remember when I got married women wore stockings and high heels and pedicoats and dresses and pearls all day long. And the house was perfect. Allegedly the dinner was on the table, it was of an era and a time that no longer is relevant but that was what I grew up with. That was my grandmother. That's what I remember. But that wasn't who I was or was gonna be. And it took a little bit of confronting that and choosing who I wanted to be and how I wanted to live my life and back to values. What was important about that? To be able to not have to stand in that image.
Productivity is about people, right? So that's the problem that we start off. And then we talk about these four mindsets what is the outcome that you want to create in any situation? And it's a growth mindset how do I want these kids to be as a result at the end of this pandemic, right? And if you can articulate that horizon, how you start to show up differently, even in the doing and the trying to get to that horizon. And the other one we were just talking about is navigating resistance. Internal resistance can be a big part of that, your own saboteurs, right? That part of you, that wants to be perfect. That doesn't want to fail. We talk about that in the mindset of resistance.
We really have this fundamental belief that boundaries are there to let people in not keep people out, but you have to know what is important to you in order to be able to do that. And then the last one, which is one that we're very fond of, which is meaningful connections. And that really is the doing of work tends to be very self focused. What am I trying to get done? What am I trying to achieve? Make happen? But the truth of the matter is, as you are working in an organization over time, you've really gotta shift that thinking to actually include the collective whole, what do other people around you need? How together can you get all of those things done? So trying to widen that lens from yourself to the other people that are around you.
This is really the big shift that we're seeing in the workforce right now with the great resignation is people are looking for that meaningful connection, both within themselves, what gives them purpose. And then how does that purpose come to life inside this place where they're working. And that's gonna be work that's gonna happen on both the individual level and the organizational level for the next several years. There's no magic panacea for any of this. It's transformational work that's gonna happen on both sides of the equation.
We want you to be an outcome creating versus problem reacting. And I love that word reacting because this is where we all go when things are happening that we don't like around us, we go into that reactive mode and there's three primary ways of reacting. You can become super controlling you can become super complying or you can become protecting and protecting are the people that are gonna create distance. So the first step is to understand that you are gonna go there. The second step is okay I don't really wanna be here. How do I get myself out of this? What is the bigger outcome that I'm wanting to create for myself?
It starts with us. What didn't we like about it? Could we could have spin and make the other person wrong and blame the world. But pausing and being like what didn't we like about that? And take ownership of it and then choose a different path forward, is just a practice that we use all the time, which sort of guides us right into the five practices.
When we talk about creating safety it really is up to you to create safety for yourself for the people around you. And we get that there is trauma that people are bringing into the workplace that raising your hand or putting your voice in doesn't always feel safe. And so there's some things that we talk about in the book on how to find allies and people to help say what's not needed, but we're just a big believer that creating safety, manifests trust.
The skill that we offer there, are three levels of listening, what's important to me? What's important about it to the others? And what's not being said that may need to be voiced? Like the example of people being worn overtaxed and burned out.
The second one is working together. It is hard to work with other people. There are conflicting agendas, there are conflicting ideas about the best way forward. And part of what we say is when you're working together with other people that you actually need to get curious about what is happening over there ? And how do you put what you need over here for a minute and just get super curious about what are the needs going on over there, what's happening for them? And the sort of phrase we use is that when you're working together with other people, it's not about you. The skill that we actually teach you is what perspective are you standing in about this other person about this project, whatever. And maybe you need to step into a different perspective and then that will actually help you to unlock what's going on with the people around you.
I'm over here, laughing inside my head because as a working mom, we've all had that moment where we're trying to get out the door and the kid won't put on their shoes. And our need at that moment is to get in the car because we need to get to work or the doctor's appointment or wherever on time. And the kid has a different point of need, which might be, we don't know what, because we tend to step right over that. But taking a beat and being like, what's going on for them? Maybe they're not ready to leave that toy. Maybe they were in the middle of something maybe they just want to feel your love and have you put that shoe on for them, even though they're completely capable, like those are all perspectives of just take a breath, what might be happening over there. And if you meet them there, how does your collective objective get met and, that's the power of us in any relationship of our life with working together is how do we notice what's happening over there and meet them there? It's not about you. It's all about them and working together.
Third practice in the book is one of my favorites. And we've talked about it already, which is about claiming your values. And claiming your values about knowing what's important to you. And that helps you create alignment for yourself and for others about how you wanna be in this world, not what you're going to do, but who do you wanna be? And it helps you aim all of your activities, your energy toward being the person that you wanna be while you're doing the doing of your life. If it's a mother, a partner, a child, to somebody else we're certainly dealing with that as aging parents. And how do we want to be with our parents in the decline of their life? It's a place to go back to your values and live into them.
The next practice is called owning your impact. This is one you can see as we're progressing that this is really about you from in a leadership position. So we're all having an impact all the time with the people around us. In our language, we say some of that is intended. Some of that is unintended, you've said something, maybe a joke and it came out the wrong way and landed the wrong way with the room that's gonna happen, but what do you wanna do in terms of owning that impact? Because here we say you're responsible for what you're creating around you. And particularly as your teams start to get bigger as you're actually, working with more people across the way. How do you wanna take up some accountability for the impact that you are creating and, related to what Deb was just talking about, are you actually having the impact that you want or not? And if you're not, this is another place to unpack that a little bit.
If we could change this in leadership, the world of leadership and the world of being a leader in our lives, this would be the one. I think in terms of being a working mom and being a mom, you wanna protect your kids, you wanna know what's going on, but the truth of the matter is we don't. We can't know everything. That's pretty obvious. And so we talk about daring not to know is the practice of surrender. What's it like to admit gosh, that's a really good question, I don't know? That is both vulnerable work and exciting work in my world. So cuz I think when you have the courage to say gosh, I don't know how to move this team forward. I'm not entirely sure. That opens up the door to participation to the people around you. It actually creates more that engagement.
Humanity is actually the intersection of humans. It is this idea that none of us live this life alone. And if we are parenting, if we are in the workplace, there is an interdependency that we have on one another. And so the five practices, super pack of skills, these are things that all humans can practice and live through with one another that we believe will actually yield more humanity, a greater way of being with one another. If we're being parents with our children, good partners to our significant other, good children to our aging parents or employees in a workplace. These are skills available to everybody that cost no money that don't take any special equipment that everybody can do. And we're just big fans of we think the world could change with more humanity present in our personal lives and in our workplace.
Bio
Leadership experts Debbie Cohen and Kate Roeske-Zummer show you how to chart a new path forward: one that brings humanity to the workplace through awareness, choice and courage. Inspired by proven techniques they’ve used to transform teams at organizations like Mozilla, Pinterest, Saba, Articulate and Charge EPC, the authors guide you through their transformative Five Practices. The result? A healthier, more productive work environment that draws the best – rather than squeezes the most – out of people.
Links to Additional Resources
