S4 E67: Unpacking our addiction to work and owning our choices
with podcaster and behavior coach Eric Zimmer
Key Takeways
At 24 I was homeless. I was a heroin addict. I was looking at going to jail for a long time, so I was not doing well. And it wasn't long after that I was in recovery. I did drink again. I stayed sober about eight years. I went back out, I drank I did not go back to using heroin, and now I've been sober again 15 years. So in there I'm raising Jordan, I'm working on staying sober and recovering and all the elements that go with that, and I'm working in the software field.
When I started the podcast, I started it for a few different reasons. One was I just needed it. I was in my second marriage and that marriage was not good. But we were very committed to our boys, so we were both there. And so I was not in a great place. I realized I was reading these kind of books anyway. Why not have a conversation? And then my best friend Chris, was an audio engineer and I thought it would be a way for him and I to spend more time together because one of the things I think a lot of parents will relate to is your social life changes.
I think you can also have purpose and get burnout. I agree, it's an important ingredient in all of that, but just because you have purpose doesn't mean you don't get burned out. Or just because you like what you do doesn't mean you don't get burned out. Here's an interesting thing about purpose - I'm working in this role and I've got this podcast and the podcast is where I want to go. It's the thing I want to do. I'm aiming at that. What I realized was I realized very quickly that even though I'm aiming at getting outta here and I feel like my purpose is very clearly over here at the podcast. I had to find ways to make the job I was doing 40 hours a week meaningful and purposeful because if I didn't, what happened is it drained so much outta me. I didn't have the energy to commit fully to this other thing.
So while I'm trying to get out of this job, I am at the same time having to find it more deeply so that I'm able to not get burned out, and so for me it started to be about looking at what are the elements of this job that are not about advancement, right? Because so much of our lives and our job and our work lives is, and this isn't for everybody, but for a lot of people is what's next? How do I get promoted here? How do I do well in this job? There's a lot of stress that comes with that. And when I suddenly realized that was not my goal anymore, I was able to look for what meaning is actually here in this role. And strangely enough, I think I got better at what I did.
There were certainly times in my life I thought I have traded one addiction for I think a far better addiction, right? If you've gotta choose heroin or being devoted to your career, I having done both, I would unequivocally recommend the latter there. But that doesn't mean that it's not an addiction. A basic workable definition of addiction would be engaging in a behavior again and again, and not being able to stop despite there being clear consequences. So if we use that as a general guide, then we could say that work gets very confusing because the consequences are harder to parse out. And that activity is very socially accepted and very socially supported.
I think work addiction is a very socially supported sanction. We are very much rewarded for it very directly. We penalize heroin addicts. We don't penalize over workers. We put 'em on the cover of magazines. The thing I think that's really important in tweezing any of this apart, is to be thinking what really matters to me? What is most important to me, and am I living a life that is supporting those things or consequences coming that aren't aligned with who I am. And for me the way to know whether I have an addictive relationship is to really look at what am I not doing because I'm working? What am I giving up? What am I not doing? And again, the consequences of that can be a lot of us don't realize it till like our kids are grown and we're like, okay, the ship has sailed at that point. So how to balance those things, I think is very tricky.
Burnout is another one of those. I don't think most of us see it coming. We think we're fine. We're fine. It reminds me of Hemingway talking about how he went broke, right? Which was like slowly than all at once. I think that's what happens a little bit with the burnout to the extent I've experienced or other people is it's yeah, I'm a little bit tired. Yeah. I'm not on my game. And then bam, like uhoh. And so that's another consequence that's coming that we don't see. And, addiction is notorious for, you just keep buying current moment satisfaction at the expense of the future.
I think that what you just said about rewarding long hours versus lots of work. But I realized that some of that hour of game was in my head. Yes it was happening around me. Yes, it was part of the culture, but when I stepped away from it but kept delivering, I was still rewarded for delivering. Is there a way to do this and achieve what the real goals are, which we're often not even incredibly clear on what are the real goals? Is there a way to do that with less time?
Parenting is not rewarding in the same way. You're not encouraged in the same way. It's interesting how much science we have around how good it is to be generous, The message here though is not necessarily go and be more generous. Another way to do this is to reconnect deeply with the generosity you are already doing and realize it as so. That is the parenting thing is we don't give ourselves enough credit. If I ask a parent what's most important to them, they will say my kids, but we don't often live like that. And I think it is because again, keeping values front of mind is hard, is difficult to do.
But the more we do it, the more we realize we are making choices. We are the architects of our lives. We are making choices. The more we can connect the choices that we are making with what we value, I think the more integrated life feels. When you have kids you get into saying I have to do this. And I realized, I was like, I've gotta take him here, then I gotta take him there. And I had a moment where I was like, no I don't. There is no law in this universe that says I've gotta take my kid to soccer practice and then pick him up I don't have to do any of that. I am choosing to take him to here. it's a small shift, but it's a big shift. It's a shift that gets us out of I'm trapped I have to do all these other things and a shift that gets us into, I am making those choices. And I can either then recognize that and realize I'm making those choices cuz they align with my values and now my life lines up inside me. It's been really important to get back to what do I value and what choices am I making? Do they align with those?
You can be doing the things you want, but the structure and makeup and shape of your life may not be right. Like I'm a big believer, like I know for my mental health, there are physical health components that I have to take care of. If I'm not doing those, it doesn't matter what I do value. I could be doing values ,where I feel like crap. Like I have figured out after a certain number of years, there are certain things that I need to do to take care of my mental and emotional and physical health that if I don't do them, no amount of anything else really makes up for it. And so this is part of what's so tricky is you're trying to line up a number of different things while you are living a life that is jam-packed and full. These challenges are real.
There's a reason that so many people are struggling. It's because we are in a system that is very difficult to navigate. And I think it's sometimes important to realize that we take this as such a personal failing, but there are systemic issues that are at work here too. So we can't necessarily change those, but we should, and maybe we should try. But at the very least we should recognize them as impacting upon us. And then we start to take our own quote unquote failings, less personal.
Self-care is an interesting example. Maybe a meditation practice is part of your self-care. It's hard to do. But hats off to you. The problem with most of us is the minute we leave that container, we forget all about any of that until the next day because we are just off and running. So the question becomes, how do we actually, in the midst of a busy life, how do I bring that to the moments of my life? How do we interject more moments of presence in our life. In AA we used to say, practice these principles in all our affairs.
A society is made up of people and that when individuals, when we make the choice that we are gonna value something else We do have that freedom to value different things, to make different choices. They may not be easy choices. They may be choices that put us outside of the social norm to some degree, but we do have them, One of my favorite books ever is Man's Search For Meaning, the story of Victor Frankl in the Concentration camps, right? It points to we have more ability and choice in life than we think.
You're worried about security. You don't know what's coming. I just think that I would advise my former self to try and adjust your priorities a little bit so that you not only have a little bit more time for your kids, but you actually have a little bit more spirit for your kids, A little bit more energy, because even though I think I did a decent job of being there time-wise, I wasn't always there.
And then I think the other thing I would have probably advised my former self to do was find more activities to do with other parents and other families. I could have done that. And it was challenging cuz the communities we were in, I didn't relate with a lot of the people I probably could have looked a little bit harder at that because I think that was an element of support that I did not tap into that would've supported me in not being so alone, not being so burned out. I think I could have done more of that had I been more cognizant that was valuable to do.
Bio
A behavior coach, Interfaith Spiritual Director, host of the award-winning podcast The One You Feed, and writer, Eric Zimmer is endlessly inspired by the quest for a greater understanding of how our minds work and how to intentionally create the lives we want to live. At the age of 24, Eric was homeless, addicted to heroin, and facing long jail sentences. In the years since he has found a way to recover from addiction and build a life in which he thrives. His story and his work have been featured in the media including TedX, Mind Body Green, Elephant Journal, the BBC, and Brain Pickings.
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